Monday, February 2, 2009

Facebook seminar application critique

I would like to discuss some of my thinking about the presentation for the Geo Challenge app.

Overall I thought that was really a great presentation done by the group , the presentation was easily understandable and clear. The issues discussed was quite relevant and meaningful, and I hope to share some of my insights here.

So now I would also like to discuss 3 points that was brought up by the presenters that really caught my mind.



1.) the talk about the serious gaming aspect.
(how well has it done as an educational app)
As we know there are many educational applications around, but not many are successful,

because when you try to be educational, the chances are that your app is going to be dull and

rigid, those people out for fun and action wouldn't fancy your game, but if you are targeting at

audiences that are out for fun, it's hard to still try to be educational.



but this app is exceptional, this is because of the layout and design of the game, where they make it so that you would like to compete with your friends, and hence make the educational game competative. the inner design was also very well done , that they fit the whole theme into an airport scenario where you have to guide tourist around with your knowledge. That makes users like me have a sense of knowing what I am suppose to do.


the ultimate success of this app in this educational field is that the developers have launched it in the correct platform that is facebook, if this app was launched as a desktop application, and without competition with your friends , people would never want to play this game for more than 1 time. so I guess the success of this app was not purely on the features that were programmed into it, but also the platform that is was launched.




I guess the same applies for singapore context for education also, some people would just study very hard in order to beat others in thier studies because it gives them a sense of achievement. if there is no one to beat, most probably the students here would just slack and do nothing.




okay, just some analogy,back to the app, so the app teaches us that for an app to be successful, it doesn't only depends on the feature or the nature of the game, the targeted audience and the platform plays a major role in it too.


so as the presenters have said: it is the educational nature and massage spreading ability of this app that would make the ministry of tourism want to buy this application or advertise in it. So it means that the app has already established itself as a great educational tool.

the app has been thus very succesful not only it's niche field, but has also manage to attract users who are not keen to learn to actually enjoy the learning process.

Conclusion :
it takes an 'good' lecturer to put to sleep students who are keen to learn.
it also takes an great app to make people who are not keen to learn , actually striving to learn.
so both are is called unconcious learning.
because you have to learn unconciously...
and judging on their progress in instilling unconcious learning into people, they have been a great app.



2.)
the second point I would like to add on is
the point about the idea of integrating the theme of a certain company into the main theme
of the game.

in which the presenters gave an example of herbal something,
it was where the whole theme was actually pink in colour. and with herbs lying all around.

I thought that it was really a great feature of this app. because it has many opportunities for commercial advertising.

a great issue about making games is that you must know how to put your advertisements to where they belong, so normally developers would just put it at the side or at the bottom to make it non-instrusive.

but is it the only way?
actually the best place to put your advertisement is in your content of the app, to push it even further, you might even want to think of your app not as an app but as an advertisement.

this is not a novel idea , many movies or games have done that, for example

transformers : making one of the robot transform into a volvo car (correct me if I am wrong),

money no enough(Jack Neo) : selling mei zhen xiang bak kwa in the movie.



but something that is worthwhile to commend about this app is that
according to what the presenters have shown us ,although it is not a novel idea, it was done in a very well manner, it doesn't seem too abrupt that may agitate some users,
and some users may even like the theme and begin to like to product the company is selling,
so there are many companies outside that are willing to pay money to create this type of awareness.



3rd point

the 3rd point I would like to discuss is that, the idea of making Geo Challenge into a mobile phone game, I personally think that it is a very good idea.





as the presenter has mentioned, given the nature of the game, where it only involves simple clicking, this would make a good candidate for mobile games.

and given that the next generation of 3G phones technology, people can even go online on thier mobile phones, this would make the app easier to access. and hence attract more users.

but now I would also like to post back a question to the presenters of Geo Challenge.

since we have agknowledge that the success of this app is because it has been launch on facebook , and it manage to tab on the users of facebook, making them wanting to compete against each other, so after you port it over to the mobile phone platform, would you still think that the app will be as successful as before without the users of facebook? if yes , how would you justify it? if no, how would you try to think of ways to resolve this issue.


please correct me if I am wrong in any way, and please leave some comments for me


Thank you very much,


best regards
Yu Han







22 comments:

  1. Well said Yuhan! Unconscious learning is indeed an amazing feature of this app.

    From personal experience, I actually decided to try this game because it was a sister game of Word Challenge. (Bulls-eye hit for the group that analyzed this app)

    I think the group also did well to bring out certain exact points that made me quit using the app within a week of adding it - the foremost being that it was so very repetitive!

    The size of the countries was raised by the presenters as an issue - but I completely disagree with this point. As said, when you zoom out the relative size of the country is actually revealed. The point being that if someone were to recognize a country within the first few seconds, chances that they really know the place is high!

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  2. yea,
    I also don't agree with the presenters about the size of the country is wrong too, if they were to put the correct size of the country,
    Russia would occupy the whole screen , and Singapore wouldn't even be visible...

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  3. Mobile Gaming! This will be a killer app for phones because we have so much dead time(travelling).

    This is also the reason why the most popular and best selling apps on the iphone are games.

    Plus on a new platform, developers can come up with innovative games because of the low cost of producing the game where games are judged on how fun they are instead of how good they look and how branded they are.

    BTW: Stanford just finished it's first iphone course. ANy chance this will be the new platform for the next sem?

    One side point about iPhone games, somehow people still have not built in social features. The developers who build in social network features will be more likely to defend the turf against clones.

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  4. You nail it on the head with "it takes an good lecturer to put to sleep students who are keen to learn." I think its really true and I am glad NUS has many good lecturers too.

    I agree that edu-tainment is really hard and so far not much games have really done exceptionally well. I guess its because most of edu-tainment games advertise themselves as Edu-tainment! Not that its wrong, but when I see a game that is built around that goal, half the fun is gone. Who would associate school or learning with fun? Most do not, which is why I think geo challenge is neat, in that its actually a edu-tainment game in-disguise.

    Subliminal message is really power if used correctly and I have to say mei zhen xiang bak kwa in jack neo movie is a very good anti-example of it. The way he does it is way too obvious. And frankly I never quite got the herbal essence + pink thing with geo challenge.

    Finally, I agree that this game was really made for the handphone! Playing with a computer allows you to cheat so easily. After all, the control in the games are so simple it is perfect for the handphone buttons.

    Great post yuhan!

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  5. 'guess the same applies for singapore context for education also, some people would just study very hard in order to beat others in thier studies because it gives them a sense of achievement. if there is no one to beat, most probably the students here would just slack and do nothing. '

    What a sweeping generalisation. But I do feel this is quite true to some extent. All humans have this innate desire to triumph over other fellow humans, to conquer, to dominate.
    And that is why there are ranking systems everywhere in the world


    Kevin

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  7. hello wenhan,

    what you said is quite true, the mobile phone platform has it's own strength,
    and this game is just suitable for people when they are boring waiting for something...

    Hello Yu ming,
    yea yea, I also think that Jack Neo has gone overboard, but the movie has been very successful though, Jack Neo is just very talented....

    Hello Kevin,
    ya lah, too sweeping i guess, but just an analogy, now the system is changing already,
    hope that the ever evolving Singapore, would be better tomorrow....

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  8. Unconscious learning?? wahaha! Subconscious learning lah! Unconscious learning is when u're asleep...! hahaha..

    thanks for the commendations! :D

    Mobile gaming.. hmm.. Well i see it not as a standalone project, but one linked to Facebook! So in terms of the scores and all, mobile users will be linked to the facebook users, and scores will be compared across the board. While that might seem unfair (cos it's touchscreen and all), i've heard reports on the forum that touchscreen doesn't make that much of a difference (some users have touchscreen laptops i think!). So how can these scores be sync-ed? Think WPF - hybrid applications! So users play their apps offline, competing with the last updated scores on their iPhone etc, and when they next get internet connection, the scores are sync-ed and updated! Would that be possible? xD (i'm no programmer, but.. theoretically....)

    Hmm, another thing to note would be the size thing that you mentioned. You're perfectly right! Singapore wouldn't be visible, and russia would be completely off the charts! So that is a realistic constraint that the producers of Geo Challenge had to work around, and yes, they did so by zooming out. But many people don't wait to get to the zooming out stage. (Remember, time is also a factor to scoring points!) So while Geo Challenge has tried it's best to tackle the problem, the fact is still there - that people learn about the different shapes of the country, but might never relate it to the actual size. Honestly though, i think they've tackled it well, just that you know, you can't please everyone, and the key thing that we really wanted to highlight was simply that in Edu-tainment, you have to be aware of what u're teaching!

    Also, with regards to Herbal Essence, i also didn't get the pink thingy! haha.. But I felt that, it being released as the Herbal Essence version, that was advertisement enough. Imagine saying to your friends "eh! Have u played the Herbal essence version...?" haha.. But my group just felt that the concept was interesting.. i'd have never thought of applying subliminal messaging to apps in that manner!

    'guess the same applies for singapore context for education also, some people would just study very hard in order to beat others in thier studies because it gives them a sense of achievement. if there is no one to beat, most probably the students here would just slack and do nothing. '

    You know what, i feel that competition is good, but it should be healthy competition. In Singapore, many a time it boils down to "i want an A!!! How do i get an A while doing the least work??" rather than "i want to learn! I'm doing this module because i want to learn, not just get an A!" If people adopted that kind of attitude, then i believe the quality of work produced (even in this class) would rise tremendously, because there's a sense of pride in producing the app, not simply submitting work. The grade is just an incentive! After all, what pride is there in submitting an app which your group produced, but which you did not make any effort/take pride in doing? You wouldn't have learnt anything in the process of doing it, and even if you got an A in the end, it wouldn't be an A to be proud off.

    And so i personally believe - it's the process, not the ending, that matters most. It's a personal belief, but there you have it!


    - huihui

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  9. OH GOSH! i'm sorry! i didn't realise i wrote so much! >.<

    - huihui

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  10. Hi Yuhan,

    To answer your question: Well, honestly I don't know if the app is successful on mobile phone platform or not. There are too many differents in term of user interactive on computer and phone. To ensure the success, I think playfish must maintain the app on mobile platform to make sure it's easy to play, and find a way to synchronize between social networking and the phone itself. Not everyone's phone has 24/24 internet connection, therefore an offline very would be very helpful.

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  11. oops I mean offline version*, typo mistake

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  12. Hello, Hui Hui

    haha, yea, my english not good mah,
    i see it's Subconscious learning,

    'If people adopted that kind of attitude, then i believe the quality of work produced (even in this class) would rise tremendously, because there's a sense of pride in producing the app, not simply submitting work'

    i fully agree with you in this,
    and in this class I have seen so many talented people who take pride in things they do...

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  13. hello, Jason

    yea, that's why we are learning wpf...
    haha

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  14. "after you port it over to the mobile phone platform, would you still think that the app will be as successful as before without the users of facebook? if yes , how would you justify it? if no, how would you try to think of ways to resolve this issue."
    --
    Personally I think without a popular medium to publicize the app, it will be very hard to take off. Many webapps on facebook are meaningless and do nothing yet they are gaining lotsa users because of the simplicty of how u can get ur friends on the same thing.

    If I see a damn interesting flash game (assuming it has the same qualities) and email it to my friends, most of them would think of the email as spam and delete it without even double clicking it to try it.

    If facebook did not exist, I suppose it could be tied to popular tv shows like nat geo or as mini games for other more major games. Seriously I think without facebook, no one would care about this game as much.

    An offline version would be good, allowing the user to play repeatedly but then the advertisements would be a problem. It won't be able to refresh, so I suppose some advertisers won't be that happy. Sync-ing isn't much of a problem, just uploading of data only...

    Also on the topic of touch screens, i personally think it makes no difference, most seasoned users already can handle the mouse very accurately, i.e. you can swipe ur mouse to a location of the screen u want without much effort, well at least for me... perhaps cuz i'm an FPS gamer.. heh.

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  15. Yeah~ I also support mobile WPF version of GC :) Not only GC, but other edu-entertaining games~
    If we could make more of this kind of games, ppl who live in East Coast and study in NUS will be smarter :) :) :)

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  16. “it also takes an great app to make people who are not keen to learn , actually striving to learn.
    so both are is called unconcious learning”
    This is a very useful idea. Indeed, i also pointed out in my blog. I think this kind of learning definitely can make study more easily.
    For the mobile gaming, I just cannot wait to try it la :-) It must be more attractive and easy to control. There is a such kind of trend that makes every interesting game more convenient to play.

    Btw, happy for grouping with u...
    Cheers

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  17. hello, ding yan

    'Personally I think without a popular medium to publicize the app, it will be very hard to take off.'

    what you said here is quite true, there are many useless apps that are popular just because they are in Facebook.

    if we would want to make a hybrid app,
    it's either the advertisers or the users that will be unhappy,
    what a dilemma....

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  18. hello lin xi,
    forgive me to ask..
    why would people who live in East Coast and study in NUS will be smarter?=)

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  19. hello yiming,
    nice working with you too=)

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  20. In a forest with little animals, it's better to eat plants;
    In a forest with many animals, it's better to hunt.
    In the future, GLOBALIZATION?
    maybe both might unite
    :)

    FB and mobile are different platform, the route and items required to succeed are also different.
    There is still ways to earn if you sell it on mobile rather than put Ads like on FB.
    But putting a game on mobile too doesnt mean it will be better, more doesnt mean better.
    The revenue it earns on mobile might not be as much as it earns on FB.

    Now the technologies are improving so fast, we got 3G now almost everywhere around Singapore.(correct me if I'm wrong)
    In the future, maybe WiMAX or some other thing might let everyone be online at all times, anywhere on their mobile too...
    All these might be almost the same, ANTICIPATING THE FUTURE.......

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  21. actually Mobile platform (at least for iphone) has many similarities with Facebook.

    It has
    1) social contact - phone book. Developers can access them but few do
    2) internet access - for server/client architecure
    3)application store- Users can see what applications interst them

    What is lacks is actually integrating all 3 together in an app because of the sandbox that apple is restricting developers too.

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  22. Hello Abel,

    'In a forest with little animals, it's better to eat plants;
    In a forest with many animals, it's better to hunt.'

    yea, do the correct things at the correct time, well said, Abel!

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